Hi Libera, thank you for your comments, I was useing 2019 for that project, I am having a couple of hiccups on 2020, perhaps I should try in on there to see if its behavour problem is still there. I think one of the fault are me, although it didnt happen on 19, it keeps telling me I have too much open and starts jumping around, the other is a simular problem where after spending a couple of hours trying to achieve something, the whole picture slips on saving, I just did a rust one, on what are you working on, the 2 churns where find, but the jug which was just an element, sliped out of place as did the background, and my attempt on making a hole in the tin can. most annoying. Have a nice evening. x